Hanako Games

Twinkle Toes Skating - sneak peek at Yuki

#1 by hanako - Dec 12 2007

shhh... this is top-secret! But here's a look at the design for the main character of the skating game we're working on:

[Could not load http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4232/previewyukiql3.th.png]
Click to view

(You'll unlock multiple costumes during play, this isn't the only thing she can wear.)

#2 by phoenixgirl - Dec 12 2007

Ooohh that's cool. I used to watch those figure skating competitions when I was younger. I can't wait to see the other costumes.

Re: Twinkle Toes Skating - sneak peek at Yuki

#3 by Purple - Dec 14 2007

hanako:

shhh... this is top-secret! But here's a look at the design for the main character of the skating game we're working on:

[Could not load http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4232/previewyukiql3.th.png]
Click to view

(You'll unlock multiple costumes during play, this isn't the only thing she can wear.)

Is it possible to change the eyes..? (They're,well..creepy @_@)

No offence though, I like the costume

#4 by hanako - Dec 14 2007

It's a style thing - didn't want her to look just like a standard anime character and wanted it to be clear that she's non-white. It's silly considering just HOW many casual games there are out there that I don't think ANY of the mascot characters are anything other than white, except for 'Dora the Explorer' and that's because it's a licensed character...

I think the eyes are cute, but if they creep you out, don't worry - the full-length pictures like that only show up in the costume-changing room where you set what outfit she's wearing. Most of the time you'll be seeing the character in a small animated sprite doing her skating. So if those eyes weird you out, you won't have to have them staring at you all the time.

#5 by Yuki - Dec 14 2007

hanako:

It's a style thing - didn't want her to look just like a standard anime character and wanted it to be clear that she's non-white.

I wouldn't have guessed that she was non-white.

#6 by hanako - Dec 14 2007

...if a name like Yuki and blue-black hair and tilted eyes isn't enough to suggest that she's Asian, what is?

#7 by Yuki - Dec 15 2007

hanako:

...if a name like Yuki and blue-black hair and tilted eyes isn't enough to suggest that she's Asian, what is?

Well she doesn't look un-asian, but your games do seem to feature a rather large number of people with Japanese names, unnatural hair colour and unusually shaped eyes, none of whom appear asian. Not to mention the fact that most anime and anime-style characters of different races don't seem to differ.

#8 by hanako - Dec 15 2007

The secret default name for the Cute Knight character is Michiko, admittedly, but most people don't use that name. All the characters in all the other games are pretty clearly not Japanese - in my opinion, anyway, I've seen one review of Fatal Hearts assuming that the characters *must* be Japanese because it's anime-styled, even though all the cultural details point clearly to the US.

(Christina's Japanese middle name is a play off "Mina" from Dracula. Actually naming her Mina or Minako would have been silly, and 'Christina Mina' would sound even sillier!)

I don't think anyone else has a Japanese name unless I'm just having a Brain Fail at the moment...

Well, it doesn't really matter. She may not stand out so much from MY characters, but she does more from the Alice and Betty and Carrie and Flo and so on of the typical casual games?

#9 by Yuki - Dec 15 2007

hanako:

Well, it doesn't really matter. She may not stand out so much from MY characters, but she does more from the Alice and Betty and Carrie and Flo and so on of the typical casual games?

Oh hell yes.

#10 by Yume - Dec 25 2007

Cute design. And well, to me she does look Asian. (maybe because I can recognise my own kind? lol.)

cool

#11 by Naiomi666 - Dec 26 2007

what will the game be about? Can control cool ice skating moves?

#12 by hanako - Dec 26 2007

Kind of. It's a fast-paced puzzle game, and as you do the things you have to do to complete the puzzles, it makes the character perform skating moves. (It's all still somewhat secret. With these casual puzzle games, people often take each other's ideas and run with them, so I don't want the details of this game getting out until the game is just about ready. Of course, with the holidays and all, the artists are all kinda busy at the moment, so it'll be a couple of months before this is finished.)

#13 by Purple - Dec 31 2007

Good, I'd be too scared to play it if looks at me like that all the time..*shivers*

#14 by Ariel Schnee - Jan 24 2008

hanako:

Kind of. It's a fast-paced puzzle game, and as you do the things you have to do to complete the puzzles, it makes the character perform skating moves. (It's all still somewhat secret. With these casual puzzle games, people often take each other's ideas and run with them, so I don't want the details of this game getting out until the game is just about ready. Of course, with the holidays and all, the artists are all kinda busy at the moment, so it'll be a couple of months before this is finished.)

Is there going to be any Martial Arts Figure Skating in this game, that would be so cool, so please do that?

#15 by hanako - Mar 16 2008

Slowly but surely, this game is developing. More bits of art-in-progress...

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4044/twinkletoescostumesforwdu6.swf

#16 by phoenixgirl - Mar 18 2008

Wow, I love the animation art done here. It's beautiful.

#17 by Naiomi666 - Mar 19 2008

ah! it is such cute animation!

#18 by lill_sweetty - Mar 24 2008

^^ I like it a lot, actually.

The eyes are a bit strange to look at, and I think that it's...a racial marking. Which is something that I'm iffy about.

My friend and I discussed it, actually. How anime looked, usually. He thought they all looked "white", or were trying to look white. I disagree really. If you still think they look white, than that's just because that's what you automatically assume, no matter what. If the Japanese at first only saw people that looked like them, their expression of that would be a simple "stick figure" (I mean, they wouldn't think their eyes, or face or anything looked different than any other and so wouldn't emphasize the difference). And it slowly evolved into the style now. I mean, NO ONE looks like an anime character, really.

I'm not actually sure whether there's a need for the tilted eyes or not, but since this is not Japan and most non-otaku people in the US either think the person's white or Japanese it's not necessarily a bad thing....

#19 by hanako - Apr 12 2008

and another bit of animation:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1775/twinkletoescolourtoeloour7.swf

(I keep coming up with even yet still more ideas for games and not having the time to make them all! I need a studio. And minions. )

#20 by phoenixgirl - Apr 13 2008

Oohh I like this new pic. The animation is great here.

And I like the idea of hiring minions but I'm not any good at the technical aspects of game-making. Now ideas are a bit different.

#21 by Treguard - Apr 18 2008

Minions, huh?

Don't know about a studio, but there might be minion-wanna-bes out there who might be willing to help out with games for the experience.

#22 by lill_sweetty - Apr 29 2008

The animation is cute!!

^^ But you're allowed to change the clothes right? *scared of the angel outfit*

Minions, hm..? ~__~ But minions wannabes will hinder more than help...And what if the minions steal your ideas and run off into the sunset or something?

But I guess having people do grunt work only won't be so bad.

#23 by hanako - Apr 29 2008

There's a whole range of costumes - you start in normal clothes and unlock different options as you play. so no, you don't have to have little wings if you don't want them.

#24 by Coolgamer - May 20 2008

To me, the eyes are too exaggerated. It almost borders on offensive. I can understand making them look realistic and ethnic, but angles like that simply don't occur on a human face, unless a horrible accident is involved.

Other then that, the design is great.

#25 by hanako - May 21 2008

*Anime* eyes don't happen on a human face either.

It's a different style, that's all. see http://liea.deviantart.com/art/For-Julia-76915932 for another example of this artist's work.

#26 by Coolgamer - May 21 2008

hanako:

*Anime* eyes don't happen on a human face either.

It's a different style, that's all. see http://liea.deviantart.com/art/For-Julia-76915932 for another example of this artist's work.

Well, yeah, but... I don't know how else to put it other then it seems off. I don't ever recall seeing eyes that slanted unless the artist was deliberately making fun of the old U.S. stereotypes. I'd move the corners of the eyes down a bit more.

It's a different style, but including me, three people have brought it up, two of which are worried about racial interpretations. I'm just letting you know what I see.

#27 by lill_sweetty - Jul 5 2008

I don't ever recall seeing eyes that slanted unless the artist was deliberately making fun of the old U.S. stereotypes.

Perhaps it's time to change that interpretation? If you're slanting the eyes, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're making fun of the stereotypes, merely that you're showing what ethnicity the character is. Because, face it, many Asians DO have almond shape slanted eyes.

That being said....for some reason, the Deviantart Georgina showed had up-turned slanted eyes like Yuki, but it's not...strange, or over-the-top. Maybe it would've been better if you had chosen someone who's art style doesn't have naturally slanted eyes because when you slant it even more and lessen that round look...it looks like a caricature, strange and over-the-top. I would suggest toning it down to give it more of a subtle look. Like, she's Asian, but there's no need to hit you over the head with it...

Even if the slanted-ness is part of her style, and to the artist, it's a subtle difference, to the normal person, it's a very drastic, caricature difference, especially because most people's idea of anime-style does NOT have eyes like that. And you can't explain it to everyone. I mean, I get what you're doing, and the artist's style, ect., because I've read this forum and talked to you, but other people are merely going to play the game and their interpretation is going to be different from yours. There's people who'll never like it...but I think there's a problem if 3 people have asked about its exaggerated-ness.

Maybe if there's a non-Asian character in the game, we can compare the two's eyes and see what the normal "non-Asian" eyes look like and what the "Asian" eyes look like, and won't think it's so over-the-top.

As for the "off" look, the right eye is shaped differently from the left, so maybe that's the reason for that.

I don't know. That's what I think. And I'm sorry for chattering so much, but I had a lot to say on this subject.

#28 by hanako - Jul 5 2008

As mentioned elsewhere, this project is tied up in a lot of red tape and progressing slowly. There are other people involved and decisions take forever to get made, and I can't say very much about it. At the same time, this thread sees a picture and since there's not a whole lot else to talk about, subjects it to extra scrutiny. And once one person says there's a potential problem, more people focus on it.

The concern is noted, and I'll be looking into it. But at the same time, that picture is only shown on the costume-change screen, where the focus is on the costumes. I really don't think it would even have been an issue if you saw the image in context... but I can't show the context! Thus my frustration. I don't want to dismiss anyone's feelings on the subject, but at the same time I don't want to blow the whole thing even further out of proportion.

99% of the time, during the game, the visuals you see of Yuki are the animated sprites that I've posted or the comic-panel art, where she looks like this. Does that look still seem problematic?

#29 by phoenixgirl - Jul 7 2008

Hmm, I can understand the concern about ethnicity and all but I don't know. Maybe this is being blown way out of proportion? I mean, I'm Asian but I'm not offended by the images I've seen so far. It's sort of like when in Japanese anime, how Caucasians are portrayed. They're not necessarily accurate images but I don't think people nearly poke as much into it.

Anyway, I'm more into the gameplay and storyline. As long as both are good, then I'm happy.

#30 by lill_sweetty - Jul 7 2008

Nope. Perhaps it's just that one image that's problematic. XD If the animated sprites all look at that, than I think it's perfectly fine. I mean, I can still see her eyes are like that, but they don't look like a caricature. I have trust in you that the context will work with the pictures, but I still think you have to be weary of the lines between showing ethnicity and exaggerating it.

@phoenixgirl- I think with America, race is a much bigger issue, because we as Americans see different people of different races everyday. So we technically SHOULD know better about portraying them, and yet we don't, and there's a better chance of backlash. And with Japanese anime, I know that it's getting very popular elsewhere, but still, it's mainly made for an Asian audience, and Asian audiences usually don't personally know Caucasians. And I know this might sound harsh, but I really do think that people tend to focus on things that are personally portraying THEM badly, and not other people. It's sad, but I think it's true?

But yeah, I do think it's being slightly blown out of proportions. Georgina should look into it, but I think she should focus on the game. Because, really, the goal of this entire thing is to make a good game that will entertain the audience, and the art isn't everything. In any case, good luck in getting Twinkle Toes out, and hopefully it'll be welldone in all aspects. ^^

#31 by phoenixgirl - Jul 8 2008

Yup, I see what you're saying and I do agree that people in general do tend to focus more on the negatives than the positives. I've seen that happen unfortunately.

Well, I did grow up in America so I do understand what the culture is like there and have met many races. I think that if such images were intended to make fun of a race, that's clearly unacceptable. That's not the perception I'm getting based on the images I've seen so far. Anyway, I suppose we should wait to see what the final product of the game will be and then we can really judge it then.

#32 by Naiomi666 - Jul 8 2008

[quote="Coolgamer"]To me, the eyes are too exaggerated. It almost borders on offensive. I can understand making them look realistic and ethnic, but angles like that simply don't occur on a human face, unless a horrible accident is involved.

Other then that, the design is great.[/quote]

wow! I am surprised you were able to see her eyes when that sprite was in constant motion! I tried looking at it but she just kept on moving. Are eyes really a problem? With the exception of the anime series Lain, i have never seen an anime girl have any sort of eyes that even remotely look like an actual human beings.

#33 by aya_lyka - Jul 8 2008

wow great drawing and i totally like the costume... the eyes well the other's are right creepy,exaggerated and it overborded the face.. but the character it totally perfect... i wish i could draw like that...

#34 by Yuki - Jul 12 2008

hanako:

At the same time, this thread sees a picture and since there's not a whole lot else to talk about, subjects it to extra scrutiny. And once one person says there's a potential problem, more people focus on it.

It's probably my fault.

#35 by hanako - Jul 12 2008

Ah, no worries.

However, I think I am going to close this thread up for now. Soon enough, there'll be room to call for testers, and that should probably get a new thread anyway!