Hanako Games

William and Angela and Damien

#1 by Runespoor - Nov 13 2015

Has anyone worked out the relative chronology of each of these relationships ?

Things we learn in game:
- Freshman year: Damien/William
- Sophomore year: ????
- Junior year: Damien being a womanizer (sophomores; Musette)
- Senior year: Magical Diary: Horse Hall.
We also know that:
- William and Angela dated
- Angela and Damien dated

Theories and Analysis:

William and Damien had their Thing in freshman year. It seems probable that was the first.

Then we know Angela and William dated (causing William to “swear off girls”, but that’s Virginia saying that, so it should be taken with a pound of salt – Virginia loves both gossip and hyperboles and isn’t really concerned with objective truth), and Angela and Damien also dated, and that ended with Angela publically dumping him. And – here’s the interesting part – Angela comments on that as “we both got what we wanted”.

Damien tells the protagonist what he got out of it was a bit of fun: he’d dated Angela because he knew she was a scorpion, and that was almost cute, and he wasn’t surprised she got out of it counting points. If you believe him. In this case, I do, if only because Angela seems remarkably over him, and pretty casual about it.

We also know last year, as a junior, Damien was playing heartbreaker with younger years (Virginia says he “left every sophomore in Butterfly Hall crying in the bathroom at some point”, but again: Virginia; Angela gives us the name of someone who was neither a sophomore nor a Butterfly, and she goes on to add Damien mourned her leaving a scandalously short time, but again: Angela, she who will insult your candles out of principle even if she likes them), and that does require some amount of time and effort. Damien might have found room in his social agenda to date Angela in the midst of that, though, especially given how smug she is about the whole thing.

A possible chronology for Damien-Angela would be around the end of last year: Damien’s been breaking hearts left and right, finds himself at a dearth of people willing to date him out of either concern or solidarity (there being such a thing as girl code), or bored with it. In comes Angela, who knows very well what kind of person Damien is and finds it as amusing as he finds her. Also, he is decent on the eyes. So they date a bit, and a couple weeks/months later at most Angela makes a big scene out of dumping him. For her, it’s an opportunity to prove how much better and smarter than everyone else she is. For Damien, it’s 1)funny, 2)a way to get renewed sympathy (see protag thinking dating Angela can’t have helped his trusting-people-issue).

This would put Angela dating William before her dating Damien. This would, in fact, maybe provide an interpretation why she went after Damien at all. William dates seriously: Virginia knows the name of his ex-gf-with-whom-things-ended-badly and he’s clearly not over Damien’s mindgames. He probably confided in her. From what we know about Angela, I think when she started dating William she must have thought she’d struck gold: William’s handsome, responsible, intelligent, and everybody likes him. Perfect, as far as status symbols go. And after a while he breaks up with her. Ouch. That must have hurt her ego.

In this scenario she goes after Damien for revenge against William, too, especially if he broke her heart. Proving him that she can have a taste of the boy who broke him and discard just as easily, that she’s stronger than him. Proving, also, that she’s over William himself. She uses Damien to hurt William, and she might be using her status as “William’s ex” to get Damien to date her, too. (Damien’s not as over with playing with William as he likes to pretend he is, either.)

The OTHER possibility is that William dated Angela after she dated Damien; that’d put Damien/Angela earlier in the chronology, I think. Maybe as early as their sophomore year. And I think it would hint that Damien got slightly burned there – not necessarily his feelings, but at least his ego – because he only really started preying on younger people after Angela won. In this scenario she might actually have dumped Damien (or even got with him) to go after William. Let’s be honest: Angela making a Big Scene out of dumping horrible Damien would probably earn her a lot of goodwill from William. I’m not sure what exactly she implies Damien got out of their dating in this sequence of events, though – maybe just sex?

Addendum: these theories take Angela at face value and assume she’s as stonecold as she presents herself (and as calculating as Damien hints she is), but I think they hold out even if she’s not. Maybe she breaks up with Damien because she’s starting to get attached and Damien – no-status, family-unknown, womanizer Damien – is bad for both her image and her heart.

So there you have it, my two analysis of the Damien-William-Angela doom triangle. [s]Of course this might all be rendered moot by revelations in Virginia’s path that I still haven’t played, instead replaying Damien’s. >_>[/s] Did I miss anything?

Re: William and Angela and Damien

#2 by Runespoor - Nov 15 2015

Double-posting to add some other thoughts:

I. William says “nothing happened”

...and they “weren't dating”.

I'd like to know what the “nothing” covered.

William's probably being truthful as far as the not-dating thing goes; when the PC interrogates Damien about William instead of Musette or Angela at the lake date, Damien looks stunned (his first reaction is “did he tell you we were dating?” with the wide-eyed expression), and the rest of his tale is coherent with what William told the PC. They were hallmates, they were becoming friends, and William got fascinated with Damien to the point of pestering him about things Damien was unwilling to share.

That's not say there wasn't ~subtext~ there, because we know how Damien makes “friends”: see the entire first half of his path.

But then, after Damien's attack, William shares a little more of his circumstances with Damien with the PC, and says this: “After he got what he wanted, he changed. Suddenly I was nothing to him, and I didn't take it well.” Remind you of anything?

It doesn't have to be sex, of course. It could be something else that Damien was after. It could be as symbolic as William telling Damien he loved him. Whatever it was, afterward Damien decided to cut William loose.

Whatever it was, it was sufficiently notable for William to realize/accept/analyse what had happened. When he talks to HorsePC, it's been three years, so he's had time to think it over, but I find it telling that he presents it as “after Damien got what he wanted” instead of “after a while/at one point”. So William knows Damien got something.

Sure doesn't sound like “nothing happened” to me.

I fold that in the same drawer as I put William's multiple assurances that “it's ancient history”. All I'm saying is, William sure looks wistful a lot when talking about Damien. And it's more often the half-smiling blush than the frowning one.

Though part of that is probably because he's speaking with HorsePC who got her heart broken by Damien, and it must be restful to him a bit to share part of that history with someone who won't judge him either.

II. “We were becoming friends.”

For all that his relationship with Damien was obviously a huge influence on William, I'm thinking it must have left as important a mark on Damien as well. Bear with me.

Let's go back to Damien pleading with HorsePC right before the Dark Dance.

“We weren't dating,” PC says.

“No, it's worse,” Damien replies. “We were becoming friends.”

And here I am, wondering how Damien knows this is the way to court her long-term. (Well, for high school: a couple of months.)

Wondering, even, how he knows “becoming friends” counts as a deeper connection than “just dating”.

I mean, yes, Damien's a genius at the heartbreaking business, but surely the neatest bits of manipulations must have required some way to learn them? Because this runs counter-intuitive to the goal of dating a girl.

And then I find myself circling back to the one person we know used to not-date Damien.

Isn't it interesting that Damien uses the same words to describe both his relationship with William and his fake one with HorsePC?

And – I wonder – isn't it interesting that Damien knows which one is “worse”? He did manage to end the relationship by having William switched to another Hall entirely. That's a lot more definitive than leaving his exes crying in the bathroom (and for Musette? I'm taking Minnie's word. She had no stake in lying about it).

I wonder if Damien didn't break that relationship as messily as he knew how precisely because he was getting honestly emotionally involved.

Then again, I do tend to think Damien puts a lot more of himself in his relationships than anyone believes, himself included. It's like he said: if he does spend time trying to tie someone to him, he's focused on them then.

III. February 1 : I just don't know

Tangentially, there's also the bit of confrontation PC witnesses between William and Damien on February 1, which I don't know quite what to make of.

First, it happens one week after the date with Damien – but also very, very close to William's birthday, something PC doesn't know but Damien probably does.

Second, it takes place in Horse Hall itself – which means both William and Damien were there. Could be accidental; William probably just returned from the mall with Virginia after his birthday celebration, and Damien came over to stir up more trouble between the PC and her roommates.

Damien, with the flirty I-have-something-on-you smile: I didn't say I wanted anything from you.
William, angry: I'll say it again: Move on.
PC: What's going on?
William turns and notices me. [from now on he has a bothered expression.]
Damien, looking oh-so-sad: I'm sorry. I'll get out of your way.
William: I wish I believed you meant that.
PC, angry: Hey!
Damien, managing to look even sadder, seriously he looks as sad as Elodie's lonely expression, that tells you how sincere he is: Have a good night.
He walks away.
William, with the wistful smiling-blush expression: Such a drama king. [I KNOW!]
PC: Argh! [I KNOW!]
...and after that PC runs after Damien and the whole thing devolves into PC being a strong independent woman who lets no-one dictate her romantic life and swears he doesn't have to be afraid anymore because she's there and Damien swooning and simpering that he's going to make things right by her and take her on a real romantic date as soon as he can arrange it.

And I have no idea what's being implied, a fact that isn't helped by not knowing when Damien realizes PC is watching. It sort of sounds like William attempted to intervene on behalf of PC's well-being to Damien before?

I do note, however, that Damien picked one of William's sister's roommates as his victim.

I'm not even sure Damien is actually talking to William when he says “I'm sorry. I'll get out of your way.” here.

Anyone got ideas?

Re: William and Angela and Damien

#3 by ark99k - Nov 26 2015

Goodness that's a long topic. I'm assuming this thread is about Damien's motivations and figuring out what is truth and what is fake.

1. Why you
I think it's safe to say that you weren't Damien's first target. Why? Like you said, anyone that he got close enough to so that they would offer their soul, he'd begin to care about. Why would he push on instead of pushing you away? Because senior year was his last chance, after that he's in the rational world. Adults are less impulsive (usually) than teenagers because their hormones have settled and they have a bit more experience.
Also, wildseed are easier targets because the ones we saw (you and Ellen) were all "Everything is so beautiful and magical! RAINBOWS!" Ellen also had a fair amount of logic to balance that out, but you are the protagonist of a romance based game, it's all or nothing! The fact that you were close to William through Virginia didn't hurt either.

2. Relationship vs. Friendship
The poor dude was raised by his cult's followers, meaning he wasn't being brought up by two loving parents. I think the lines between friendship and relationship were blurred because he never learned what love is. I know that sounds cheesy but read a little further. There are a lot of different kinds of love; the way a parent loves their child is different from the way they love their spouse, or the way a friend loves another friend. It's obvious that he confuses the second one and the third. That one scene in the classroom where he tells you that it's over (usually trigger by missing a date without explaining it to him) he acts as if you were dating. You try to explain that you were just friends when he starts saying that you led him on. For someone who is only after you for your soul (at least it's not for your body ), he's seems to put his emotions out there pretty quickly. He also seems to equates kindness with love.

3. Feb. 1st
To answer one of your questions, I think that Damien realized you were there the moment his expression changed from sly to pity me.

4. Pastel and Damien
Someone please explain that scene to me. The one where they're in the hallway and he's like "Nope, I don't do that anymore." Is this a show for you or is it this point when he's serious? Just please explain the whole scene because everything with Pastel in it confuses me.

Re: William and Angela and Damien

#4 by Foelhe - Nov 28 2015

Runespoor:

Damien, with the flirty I-have-something-on-you smile: I didn't say I wanted anything from you.
William, angry: I'll say it again: Move on.
PC: What's going on?
William turns and notices me. [from now on he has a bothered expression.]
Damien, looking oh-so-sad: I'm sorry. I'll get out of your way.
William: I wish I believed you meant that.
PC, angry: Hey!
Damien, managing to look even sadder, seriously he looks as sad as Elodie's lonely expression, that tells you how sincere he is: Have a good night.
He walks away.
William, with the wistful smiling-blush expression: Such a drama king. [I KNOW!]
PC: Argh! [I KNOW!]
...and after that PC runs after Damien and the whole thing devolves into PC being a strong independent woman who lets no-one dictate her romantic life and swears he doesn't have to be afraid anymore because she's there and Damien swooning and simpering that he's going to make things right by her and take her on a real romantic date as soon as he can arrange it.

And I have no idea what's being implied, a fact that isn't helped by not knowing when Damien realizes PC is watching. It sort of sounds like William attempted to intervene on behalf of PC's well-being to Damien before?

I do note, however, that Damien picked one of William's sister's roommates as his victim.

I'm not even sure Damien is actually talking to William when he says “I'm sorry. I'll get out of your way.” here.

Anyone got ideas?

Damien's being manipulative. Who started the conversation, or why, I don't know. But it seems pretty obvious to me that Damien's being cocky, then Mary Sue says something (letting the guys know she's there) and then Damien's suddenly all tragic-sad-eyes all over the place. "I'm sorry. I'll get out of you way," is a pity ploy, a way to make it look like Damien's willing to nobly step aside to make Mary Sue's life easier, so he comes off as the good guy and William comes off as the bad guy.

ark99k:

4. Pastel and Damien
Someone please explain that scene to me. The one where they're in the hallway and he's like "Nope, I don't do that anymore." Is this a show for you or is it this point when he's serious? Just please explain the whole scene because everything with Pastel in it confuses me.

I'm quoting this from memory, so it might be wrong, but I think he says something like, "I have my eye on someone right now, and I'm not letting anything get in the way of that." Which to me implies that he thinks Mary Sue might hear about it, and it might undermine his plans. Whether he's starting to have feelings for her at that point or not, I'm pretty sure he mostly doesn't take her up on it because it's too risky.